Curse

upier · Jul 14, 2009, 12:47 PM // 12:47

As some might remember, I've bitched about Aspy here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10376269
And here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10337304
And everywhere where people wanted to listen.
Or even if they didn't - I still bitched.

And one of the ideas I brought up was:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0&postcount=51

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The problem is that running amber is an optional objective. What could be done though is make it into a mandatory for winning. This could be achieved by adding a second counter - a simple counter that counts the number of ambers brought in. If the Kurzicks fail to bring in a specific number of amber at the end of the match - the match ends in a draw.
This forces a number of tactics:
1. the Kurzicks focus on achieving a draw. Full monk teams - Luxons can not get in to kill Gunther. Game ends in a draw because the Luxons failed to achieve the goal of killing Gunthy and Kurzicks failed to bring in the required number of amber.
2. Luxons try to force a draw by camping the amber sites, killing everyone that comes close on sight, thus preventing Kurzicks from obtaining the needed amber. This of course means that no-one goes after Gunther - which means that Luxons can not win. Draw again.
3. Luxons push into the castle - letting Kurzicks go after amber. If the guys want to bring in amber - the doors need to go down, which opens up the chance for the Luxons to go in. Kurzicks obtain amber BUT they can not hide behind a wall. And if the Kurzicks control the mines - that means the Luxons spawn at the other side of the map - massively increasing the time it takes them to reach the castle again.
4. Various splits. Some Kurzicks defend Gunthy, while other run amber VS. some Luxons advance into the castle while other guys camp the amber sites.

Of course what then needs to be looked at are the NPCs. Trash the Turtle, trash the Jaggy, trash the ability to fix the gates, ... these are all variables that can be looked at.

ajc2123 · Jul 14, 2009, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

As some might remember, I've bitched about Aspy here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10376269
And here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10337304
And everywhere where people wanted to listen.
Or even if they didn't - I still bitched.

And one of the ideas I brought up was:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0&postcount=51

Theres only TWO thing's that make me worry with that one.

1) Map is still akward and in Kurzicks favor I think.

2) More shrine capping. I think JQ/AB have enough shrine capping as it is honestly.

Other then that I think it might actually help if they arent wiling to make a complete overhaul of the arena.

Hugh Manatee · Jul 14, 2009, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

No, Kurzicks will bring monks, AND rits, and have some sort of defensiive spirit /enchant / weapon spell massive super build. Maybeh some angelic bond paragons.

Prolly something like this.

2 Bonder monks
2 Defensive rits
2 Infuse health monks
2 paragons with angelic bond angelic protection, or 2 more rits with withdraw hexes or ether prism healers or whatever.

AND even if those builds are countered, It's still not balanced. Both sides need the same goals and a symmetrical map to 100% ensure balance. I'm not saying my format is the best, but it will work.

Item A: Pain of Disenchant, Rend Enchants, Gaze of Contempt, or any of the other ways to rip a stack of enchants.

Item B: Diversion, Interrupts, Spiritual Pain, or bring banishing strike and make those spirits a huge liability. BTW pvp spirits can't be maintained, even if you had 2 communing lords, they still suck, WoW won't work on npcs cause they attack incessantly, other weapons burn energy.

Item C: Divert, Interupt, Shame, spike on the infuser, make prots impossible with WotP then lump damage till they burn out energy.

Item D: Angelic bond and angelic protection suck, 10 second up time with 30 sec recharge leave a window, not only that but it can be diverted, hum sigged, and they can be shut down otherwise by hexes.

Also the build you put up has 0 offense, even if the monks went into smiting a bit, if a luxon healer charges the mine(which they should always do at the start) around the back path he can deny the mines from what's posted while the rest of the party pincer attacks from the rear, all the while the gate are falling to the turtles. Like I said, a meta will develope, at first lux will stack stuff like blood spiking, mesmers, necroes and anti caster stuff to counter the above uber defense till they meet a kurz party that actually tries to run amber.

You don't have to have a map with 100% mirror images to be balanced, the sides can have different goals, it's just that when you add in the random pairing element, it destroys any balance that could be created by the map itself. Because when you get 3 leechers, an oath shot meteor shower nuker R/E, and a Mo/R with a level 12 GLAADpheonix... what's the goddamn point...

ajc2123 · Jul 14, 2009, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

Item A: Pain of Disenchant, Rend Enchants, Gaze of Contempt, or any of the other ways to rip a stack of enchants.

Item B: Diversion, Interrupts, Spiritual Pain, or bring banishing strike and make those spirits a huge liability. BTW pvp spirits can't be maintained, even if you had 2 communing lords, they still suck, WoW won't work on npcs cause they attack incessantly, other weapons burn energy.

Item C: Divert, Interupt, Shame, spike on the infuser, make prots impossible with WotP then lump damage till they burn out energy.

Item D: Angelic bond and angelic protection suck, 10 second up time with 30 sec recharge leave a window, not only that but it can be diverted, hum sigged, and they can be shut down otherwise by hexes.

Also the build you put up has 0 offense, even if the monks went into smiting a bit, if a luxon healer charges the mine(which they should always do at the start) around the back path he can deny the mines from what's posted while the rest of the party pincer attacks from the rear, all the while the gate are falling to the turtles. Like I said, a meta will develope, at first lux will stack stuff like blood spiking, mesmers, necroes and anti caster stuff to counter the above uber defense till they meet a kurz party that actually tries to run amber.

You don't have to have a map with 100% mirror images to be balanced, the sides can have different goals, it's just that when you add in the random pairing element, it destroys any balance that could be created by the map itself. Because when you get 3 leechers, an oath shot meteor shower nuker R/E, and a Mo/R with a level 12 GLAADpheonix... what's the goddamn point...

I'm sorry but making a party choosable in FA wont make it balanced. There are several threads on that already.

If anything It will just make more annoying metas. Kurzicks still will be pushed away from Melee classes in favor of defensive builds and MAYBE one ele nuker for shrines. Luxon will still be forced for mainly offensive with just enough healing for turtles. I want an FA that promotes all classes with a sure fire balance other than just relying on the players to make it balanced.

Hyper.nl · Jul 15, 2009, 11:59 AM // 11:59

/Notsigned

Without reading the full text I do NOT sign this. Not because it's a bad idea but because I like to play the current Aspenwood as well.

I would surely sign for a new competitive mission following your idea, but for Balthasar's sake, don't take down the current Aspenwood in the process!

Hugh Manatee · Jul 21, 2009, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

I'm sorry but making a party choosable in FA wont make it balanced. There are several threads on that already.

If anything It will just make more annoying metas. Kurzicks still will be pushed away from Melee classes in favor of defensive builds and MAYBE one ele nuker for shrines. Luxon will still be forced for mainly offensive with just enough healing for turtles. I want an FA that promotes all classes with a sure fire balance other than just relying on the players to make it balanced.

^what you just posted, that there, should be what players already take into FA, that is the exact nature of the mission, that is what is required of players, 1 or 2 amber runners with the rest defense on the blue team, mostly offense with just enough healing to prop up the turtles on the red team, then match offense skills VS defense skills and win/lose/or draw, every class has the chance to fulfill one of these roles already, it's a matter of drawing them from the random pairing pool.

Any match where both teams don't fulfill both of those conditions is a lame, one sided crapfest, boring for both sides, un-challenging pve farming for the winners and frustrating for the losing side. if you don't fufill one of those roles, and still hit enter battle in FA, you fail... if the game's matching doesn't load all those roles into the match, IT fails and the players suffer.

Allowing us to form parties ensures we weed out leechers, idiots with level 12 pets and people who don't "get" the mission, and can fight balanced regardless of the map, weather it's symmetrical or Defense vs Offense.

Where they messed up further was not putting a luxon defensive CM in the game but I guess they ran out of room/time/and money...